We’re excited to share highlights from the Leadership Succession Planning and Masterclass webinar featuring Christine MacKey-Ross, President of Leadership Solutions at AMN Healthcare, Richard Ani, Leadership Development Consultant, and Lukas Voss, Content Writer at Becker’s Healthcare. This episode of Elevate Care dives into the strategic importance of leadership succession planning and development within organizations. The discussion explores key considerations for hiring, growing, and transitioning leadership roles to align with organizational goals. Topics include the pros and cons of hiring internal versus external candidates, the role of organizational culture, and the value of mentorship and onboarding programs. The speakers also address the importance of intentional development processes, the influence of generational differences on leadership expectations, and the cost implications of leadership development. They emphasize that investing in future leaders is essential to reducing turnover and driving organizational success.
We’re excited to share highlights from the Leadership Succession Planning and Masterclass webinar featuring Christine MacKey-Ross, President of Leadership Solutions at AMN Healthcare, Richard Ani, Leadership Development Consultant, and Lukas Voss, Content Writer at Becker’s Healthcare. This episode of Elevate Care dives into the strategic importance of leadership succession planning and development within organizations.
The discussion explores key considerations for hiring, growing, and transitioning leadership roles to align with organizational goals. Topics include the pros and cons of hiring internal versus external candidates, the role of organizational culture, and the value of mentorship and onboarding programs. The speakers also address the importance of intentional development processes, the influence of generational differences on leadership expectations, and the cost implications of leadership development. They emphasize that investing in future leaders is essential to reducing turnover and driving organizational success.
Chapters
00:00 Introduction to Leadership Succession Planning
01:27 Strategic Importance of Leadership Development
04:12 Organizational Culture and Leadership Readiness
08:19 Internal vs. External Candidates
11:55 Onboarding and Mentorship for Internal Candidates
16:52 Mentorship Roles and Their Importance
21:38 Assessing Leadership Readiness
26:53 The Role of Intentional Development
30:33 Generational Differences in Leadership Development
35:39 Cost Considerations in Leadership Development
AMN Healthcare Podcasts (00:00.12)
Hello, everyone. Welcome to today's episode of Elevate Care. We're so excited to share highlights of a leadership succession planning and master class webinar with Christine Mackie Ross, president of leadership solutions at AMN Health Care, Richard Ani, leadership development consultant, and Lucas Voss, content writer from Becker's Health Care. Listen while they break down considerations for hiring, growing, and transitioning leadership roles to meet organizational goals. Let's have a listen.
When we look at internally and recruiting externally or promoting internally for key leadership roles, what should leaders consider? It's a debate that's going on. It's a lot of folks asking questions about it. What should people consider and what should people take into consideration? Well, Richard and I talked about this at length. I should say that Richard and I have worked together for a very long time. And when I became president of Leadership Solutions at AMN,
He was one of my first calls since this topic and and some very similar are Near and dear to our heart and integral to the success of our clients but I'm gonna turn this back over to Richard for just a minute because we think the question Lucas goes even There's a pre question to that question and and I'm gonna turn it over to Richard for a couple minutes And then I will go back and pick up your original thought So
we take it up a level before we start talking about internal and external candidates or development of internal people or hiring external candidates, we really need to take a look at what each organization strategy is. the question, the big question is, can you find leadership development as a cornerstone within your organization strategy?
If it's not a cornerstone of that strategy, then the rest of these questions may not have as much value. And so I think the first thing you have to ask is really what does leadership development mean from a strategic point of view in the organization? And then that cascades into informing, you hire internally, do you hire externally? How do you develop the people?
AMN Healthcare Podcasts (02:22.286)
because it all has to relate back to strategy first. My challenge to everybody that's listening to this is think about where does it show up as far as the strategy of your organization? How is it actualized? And then how does that cascade down to individuals?
I'm actually at the Becker CEO CFO roundtable in Chicago right now. And so I had the privilege of listening to Dr. Rod Hockman, who I've known for many years, sort of give his farewell speech to the leadership crowd here at Becker's. And somebody asked him of what did he think his most significant contribution to healthcare was? What was he leaving as a legacy? And he said, the quality of the leaders that I have worked with and developed over the years is my legacy.
If you have the right leaders and you're leaving the right team, your departure is meaningless. They'll change some things, they'll move some things forward, but the organization, you can leave knowing it's in safe hands. And that's why I think this particular question, we're probably gonna give the, of all the questions you have, this may be together our most in-depth answer because this is really the crux of the topic.
We kind of bucketed this a little bit and please forgive me for the pings. I'm using someone else's Confusion and I don't know how to turn that off and I'm too scared to play. The first thing we really look at when we're trying to help at the beginning of every leadership change, decision and process, whether you use a search firm or you don't, you should be asking yourself the question, what is the organizational culture? What is the continuity? Because
The very first thing you have to ask yourself is can we absorb a leader from the outside? Is our culture ready to accept a new person? How welcoming are we? I've had searches go awry and couldn't figure out why we couldn't get the right candidate. Why were we just missing the mark over and over? And then I learned to ask a question that I didn't always ask, which is,
AMN Healthcare Podcasts (04:37.792)
when is the last time you introduced a new senior executive to your organization from the outside? And it turned out that the community hospital I was working with, are you ready for this? Had never had an outside leader. So why they thought they were going to get an outside COO and this was going to be okay inside the organization, we had not started the process correctly. So you have to ask,
What's the organizational readiness? I think another mistake that organizations make is they're having problems, they're in trouble, they feel they need to shake things up, they're gonna hire somebody from the outside. One person against an integrated leadership team that's stuck in its own rut. I had an academic institution do this, the poor guy lasted three years, he did absolutely everything the organization asked him and they hated him.
They hated him. They let him go in three years and he was wildly successful. So when you look at the organizational culture, you have to say internal candidates are already familiar with that culture and that can lead to a smoother transition. External candidates bring lots of fresh perspectives and potentially new ideas.
And as we go through these questions and attributes that you have to consider, we're to give you pros and cons of each because there is no right answer to that. Should it be an external candidate? Should it be an internal candidate? I hate to be an accountant here, but it depends, right? The math depends on, as Richard said, what is the strategy, structure, goals of the organization? So the first question that we always ask is,
How will you judge this person to be successful? Which is a question very few people think of when they decide to hire a new executive. So you weren't backwards from that. How are you gonna judge them to be successful? And then the second thing of course that automatically flows from that is what's the skill set and experience needs that you then have in this person? And you set that as a basic bar, right? So there's no variation from the bar.
AMN Healthcare Podcasts (06:55.062)
You know this is what you want them to accomplish. You know or you think you know these are the skills that are going to and experiences that are going to help that person achieve those goals. And then you evaluate every candidate be it internal or external against that bar. So if you hire a search firm to do nothing else for you if the cost is an issue then hire them to do the work the hardest part of the search which is.
helping you assess your organization and then helping you set the bar that you're gonna measure every single candidate against. And once you have that, it's kind of hard to go wrong unless you let internal politics take over. Richard, let me turn it over to you for, have a couple of other thoughts, but let me ask you your thoughts on this. Well, I think the distinction between internal and external candidates is,
you know, in a way it's the one you know and the one you don't know, but the one you don't know might bring in competencies, skills, experience that are missing from the strategic needs of the organization. So they, you know, a good example of what's going on in the world today is how many organizations, including healthcare, are starting to look at people that are AI experts.
whether it's in marketing or operations or whatever. And most healthcare operations don't have that expertise and you may need to bring it in. And so you may have to go externally. The internal candidates, the question is, are they ready? Are they prepared? What have you done to help them be prepared? I think that if you go and form a good leadership development process,
in your organization, the likelihood of them being ready is lower. And if they're not a lot of internal promotions, then the motivation for an employee is going to be less. If you think about it, if you look at, you know, the percentage of millennials that work in the healthcare industry is a good example.
AMN Healthcare Podcasts (09:13.61)
If you extrapolate for what we do know about nurses, it's about 37 % of the current population. So if you extrapolate that over to physicians and administrators, that means 130 are employees or millennials. And if you're not doing anything to help them grow and learn, they're not going to leave. And their average tenure is 2.7 years. So building and leadership, leadership development programs are essential for the culture.
And for people to want to stay and grow and learn and contribute to the success of your hospital or your healthcare system. So I want to come back to that too, because I think again, as you mentioned before, that leadership piece is so crucial because again, but Christine, you mentioned the before, right? The legacy is the leaders that are left at the organization after you leave.
Right? You have, you might have great achievements that you've accomplished during your career, but even more important often are the folks that are continuing to lead the organization that you left and let for such a, such a long period of time. And I think that that's really the, the, the baseline at, at where a lot of this is measured. But how you, and Richard, you touched on this just, just now a little bit on, on how important is that piece of understanding? Okay. These folks need help, right? They might need a designated mentorship.
program, they might need to find somebody to be able to listen to, how do I do this? How can these programs be developed and why are they so important for internal candidates specifically to be able to say, okay, I can become a leader if you're giving me the help that I need? So you're talking a little bit here about things that we might typically refer to as onboarding.
Right. And I think this so so let's not pretend that onboarding doesn't need to happen if you're an internal candidate as well as an external candidate. Right. So so let's talk about that internal candidate first. The so an internal candidate, let's say so first of all, I'm just going to make a couple of broad statements about internal candidates. Right.
AMN Healthcare Podcasts (11:28.11)
And I have had a surprising amount of experience with this and you would be really surprised at who applies, right? You will get people who you expected to apply for the position. And then every once in a while, you'll get the head of housekeeping who will apply for a position, right? And good on them for doing that, right? Because that clearly means your organization has a receptivity to allowing people to have aspirations and dreams.
But let's say you have a really credible internal candidate, right? What do you do with them? You're not really sure, right? I feel badly sometimes for internal candidates, because I think that there's a mistaken belief that search firms work against internal candidates. We consider the search a failure if the internal candidate gets the job. We consider it a success if you are happy with the outcome. So let's say you have credible internal candidates.
I would put them always through some phases of this process, right, for a whole bunch of reasons, for optics, for giving people real shots at things, for letting people surprise you with things you don't know about them, that you've never given them an opportunity to either exercise or demonstrate to you in their current role. So you have an internal candidate and they come out and you say to yourself, okay, we have an external candidate who
is maybe a skosh more experience in this particular role and has maybe, maybe they've been there, done that candidate, but your internal candidate did really well and you really want to give that person a chance, but can you take the risk? Can you take the time to let that person develop? I think there's a lot of things you can do. You can get them an executive coach.
you can have a very structured onboarding program and treat them exactly as if they can't assume they know everything you think they do. But then you can again look externally. This was a problem that we really noticed during COVID and immediately post-COVID, that people stayed in their organizations, the movement in the market came to a standstill. No one would interview, nobody could move, nobody wanted to leave where they felt safe.
AMN Healthcare Podcasts (13:44.182)
And so we developed a program kind of using our interim product line to say, all right, let's line up a cadre. Please don't steal this idea. Cause I do need to pay my mortgage, but we wind up a cadre of C-suite executives and said, would you take on temporary assignments as a mentor? And so we, we kind of internally called this the HEAL program, which
stand, it stood for executive adaptive leadership. But we, so we placed those people, we paired them with your brand new executive and as a safety net and as a skillset developer. And we did it, we made it, you know, we started in COVID. So we did it first all virtual, right? So now it's a very adaptable program. And I think it gives boards and other C-suite leaders a little bit of confidence that
they've got to back up real CFO, right? It's not just the VP of finance that's very talented and maybe they don't know treasury, maybe they don't know board skills, right? And you need some very specific one-on-one coaching from someone who's been in the chair. But then on the external side, the onboarding, they still kind of need a coach, right? Because...
They need you. One of the things we fail to do with new hires all the time is educate them on the culture of the organization. And the culture of the organization and your ability to move within it is what makes you successful when you take a job. You get hired for going to Harvard. You get fired because you don't fit. And so the onboarding, whether you call it an executive coach,
or some other process where you educate them about how to be successful at this new level in the organization. You know, we all know there's that person who doesn't have a title, but if you don't win them over, not much happens or it's a warground getting it over the edge. Often a physician, powerful person on the organization for a very long time. And you have to help somebody who may not have previously been exposed to those kinds of things to also.
AMN Healthcare Podcasts (15:59.916)
be successful. I think onboarding is important, whether you're an internal or an external candidate for very different reasons, but certainly does help engender long-term success. Richard, any? To get back to your question, Lucas, some components of your question, and let me parse out a couple of things that you asked.
the role of having mentors or mentorship in the organization. So there are really, you know, four possible mentorship roles, or at least I'm going to tell you about four and there may be more, okay? The first one is the more traditional Sage advice. So to help a person that's been identified that can move, that potentially can move through the organization.
when they're younger in their career, having a Sage advisor that helps them navigate the organization, that helps them get connected both internally and externally to resources within the organization, and just provides that opportunity to learn from someone that's been in the role, has had success in the role in that particular organization. The other can be mentoring that's,
I'll just call it share mentoring. So when you couple two people together, I need to learn about financial matters, couple me with a financial person. They need to learn about my organization. We can mentor each other as part of the development. I think the third is to think about, and this goes back to me alluding to millennials, is the challenge of leading and managing millennials and
New generations can be that we that have been around a little bit longer don't fully understand how to best do that. So another thing that's happening a lot in some healthcare organization is reverse mentoring. So when a millennial's actually mentoring a person that's a Gen X or a baby boomer to help them understand
AMN Healthcare Podcasts (18:18.872)
this is what we're about and this is how I can help you kind of understand that. I think the last thing was what Christine was talking about and that's more of a functional mentor. That someone's the role, done the role and they work side by side with you, teaching you the things you don't quite know yet. I'm working with a person that has moved, been promoted from a CMO role to the executive overall clinical operations.
they need to replace themselves as a CMO. The person that's in the queue for that role is not quite ready. But they still need to move into their role and they can't do both roles. And so one of the answers for that is to have a person that has been a CMO, has had success in that role, that comes in to work with this person for a period of time.
to help them build some of the skills that aren't part of what they do. So there's a lot of for mentorship. I think the other question I heard you ask is just one of the things that you do for development. And that's a big broad. Yeah. Yeah. Here one, one, I'm going to go back to the strategy piece. So I'm not going to talk about strategy, but I'm going to say your strategy is going to infer what you need to be developing people for.
So you can actually take any strategy platform organization and map it to leadership competence and behaviors. And that informs you and you can look out for, you know, look out even farther if it's a three year, three year plan or four year plan or whatever you may have in your organization and start planning for the future. The Becker had an article today about
about the number of &As that are gonna come up in 2025. Well, what if you started preparing the organization and teaching leaders two years ago that when the &A was maybe in your strategy plan about what we have to do to be prepared for that and to know how to change and to be able to facilitate the success of an &A.
AMN Healthcare Podcasts (20:38.626)
So it can be very informing to start at the strategy level, map at the competencies, and then decide what do we need to do to train to be ready for leaders to have those competencies. And Christine, I want to come back to that too. Again, mentorship, obviously being a bit part of this, of being a facilitator for a lot of these things. But we talked
a lot about readiness. We talked a lot about, okay, I'm in a position. I might be, I'm competent. I know all of the things that I need to say. I'm, know what I need to do, but that doesn't necessarily mean that I can be a good leader in the organization and that I can lead a team. Right. There's a difference. I was wondering if you could elaborate a little bit on, that piece in terms of how do you address that? We touched on it a little bit in terms of some of the mentorship opportunities, et cetera, but how do we address situations where.
somebody might not quite be there yet to be in that leadership role and how do we solve that?
Well, I'm going to give you practical experience and Richard can give you all of his theory. mean, Richard is really the coach, but I'm going to give you the you're in the thick of it. What do you do? Right. Which actually does involve someone like Richard. I am I have come to be a big believer in in testing leadership, testing of individuals and not just testing skill sets.
And I don't, you know, I'm not gonna say I don't care about their personality because obviously I do and we all should. But I like to use, I probably should state my prejudices clearly. I've used a lot of instruments. I am a big fan of Hogan. And the reason that I'm a big fan of Hogan and its panel of testing is it's simple. And
AMN Healthcare Podcasts (22:33.782)
And what I really want to know about someone is what is driving them. When they get up in the morning and they do what they do, why do they do it? I also want to learn about how they do it. How are they experienced by people and under real duress, is there anything I'm going to need to help them manage that could do damage to themselves or the organization? But when I know what drives somebody, then I know how to motivate them.
Right? Not everybody is motivated by salary. For some, it's recognition. For some, it's leaving a legacy of people behind them who are competent. that was clearly a driver for Dr. Hockman, right? Leaving a very competent leadership behind. So then I know, and then what I can do is, this is if I'm working with an internal candidate, then, you we recommend they get a 360 of some kind.
so that you can see how other people perceive them and where are the consistency. Because I do think you fundamentally have to know, is the person capable of changing in perhaps the skill level ways, perhaps the, you know, are they culturally competent in your organization or most importantly, are they capable of becoming culturally competent in your organization? And then I kind of know what I have to work with.
You know, I can speak from my own experience, know, gray hair, obviously relatively much closer to retirement than I am to the beginning of my career. And so leaving my own leadership team in a good place is, very, very important to me. And the people who I think have the most potential on that group, I have already put through, you know, two years in advance of my departure, put through leadership testing.
had Richard assess them, have been actively working with them on where they need to be and what they need to change about themselves. And then providing them opportunities to do that, to gain those skills through special projects or putting them in situations that they haven't been in before and maybe are uncomfortable. And then I'm speaking a little bit from personal experience here. The other thing you have to grace an internal candidate with
AMN Healthcare Podcasts (24:54.362)
is giving them the chance to change and acknowledging that they're changing and letting the old stories about them die. Because if you've put them through that whole process and they're really ready and you give them that job, the last thing that you're going to only undermine them if you say, well, we know how Joe is going to react to this because this is, you we're going to bring in this idea and he's just going to shut it down because that's what he does. Well, maybe that's what he did.
but it's not what he's doing. And so I do think with either internal or external candidates, but you know all the warts of an internal candidate, right? You know what you're getting. The other candidate, it's Christmas day, you vote in the box, it's shiny, it's new. You really don't know that inside the Harry and David basket, that middle pair is rotten. And so I think that there's a lot to your question, Lucas, but
those would just be those would be my from the field comments and and richard has a lot more experience in coaching individuals than do i well one of the things that i mean if it's according to what you mean by not ready okay so not really funny me do i have so let's talk about a different dimension other than the the you know the self-awareness side or emotional intelligence i think are critical
they, which and can be addressed through coaching if the person still has opportunities to grow. If you're asking about, they have all the skills and all the experiences and all the knowledge they need to step into the role at a hundred percent? Not a lot of internal people may have all of it. I think the question you have to ask are, these skills and experiences or knowledge that we can resource them to acquire?
and do that while they're stepping into the role. And so if the answer is no, then they're likely not going to be ready for the role. Especially if the needs are immediate and the position is open and you need somebody to step in and be able to get a fast start. But if you can prop them up, if you can give them the opportunity and resource them,
AMN Healthcare Podcasts (27:20.386)
giving them chances to learn the things they need to learn, then they, you know, a person that has good learning agility can step into a role at 80 % or 75 % learn the things they do. And you typically don't have to worry about things like, are they a culture fit? Do they get along with others? You know that all. So I think there's an about you, which should around experience, skills and knowledge has to take place and what are the gaps?
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And what I find so fascinating about this conversation or generally about these conversations is that it all comes back to what we were mentioning in that on at the beginning of our of our call here, right? It's a there's a culture piece. It's a culture piece and it's a strategy piece. Everything revolves around how are you treating your people? How are you thinking about an internal candidate and an external candidate? How do you plan on weaving them in?
What is your approach? And I think it's so interesting that it always comes back to you. You need to determine how you're approaching this before you can even say, I'd like to look at the internal candidate. or I'd like to look at the external kid. What is your approach? What is your overall, where do you want to go? What is your culture? What is your organization? Like, I think that that's, that's really such an interesting piece. Yeah, exactly. have to start the process. Exactly. It comes back to that. I think to your point,
is that leadership growth and development does not come from a process of osmosis. It comes from a process of intention. you know, people that you're looking out at for just to be better in place or to grow into a new role has to be an intentional process. need to...
There needs to be a development, individual development planning process. There needs to be oversight of that process. I think a subtle thing about Rod and his statement he made at the conference is he made a statement that as a CEO, I took leadership development seriously. Seriously. And so if it, I think that's, if you want to, maybe I needed to go back and say that in the beginning.
AMN Healthcare Podcasts (29:40.138)
If the CEO doesn't see leadership as important and needs to be part of the strategy, how will it cascade? won't. And so, but again, I think you have to think in terms of that your staff and the people that you're going to grow to be even more effective in the role they're in and to be ready for future jobs, it has to be intentional through development.
planning or individual development planning, resourcing opportunities to learn, et cetera. Richard, I want to add to that. In a post-Boomer generation, leadership development or growth in general, is one of their hiring criteria. I
This generation, the post-Boomer generations, they fascinate me because on my own team, so the average age of a person on my team and the three divisions I run is 32 years old, which is more than half my age, right? So to say that we have communication challenges occasionally, I think would be an understatement. But I have people who have been in jobs a year, a year, coming to me and saying, what's my next move?
What's my next move? And so my look at leadership development or development in general, mean, I think that's the point that I'm trying to make is for post boomer generations, you better have individual development plans that are active and workable and that they buy into for each person, whether you think they're going to grow into this job or that job or whatever, but they will demand that.
in this marketplace. And if you don't do it, you won't hold on to people long enough to have them as part of a succession plan. I mean, I think that has been one of my biggest learnings about managing millennials and the other when Al for the coming after them, right? They demand more of us as leaders because they want to be fulfilled. It's not just about getting the title. It's about am I doing meaningful work?
AMN Healthcare Podcasts (32:02.636)
Does my boss see me, understand me, value me? Am I getting, I'm sorry, almost near constant feedback? And how am I seen in the greater reaches of this organization? So I think there's lessons coming for all of us who consider ourselves boomers in terms of Richard's point, which is development period is important across an organization.
Yeah, I just wanted to echo that because again, I'm, 35, right? So all of the points that you just brought up are, are, are things that echo with me as somebody in the marketplace, right? So that's what I'm looking for. Those are the things that I want. And that essentially becomes, in a retention, in a retention strategy and succession planning, it becomes so important to be able to say, okay, how do I keep this high?
potential target, this high performer within my organization for the future. How do I do that? And like you said, it is different generationally. think Richard, didn't want to interrupt you there. Your code is very important. Interesting that a well thought out leadership development program just coincidentally meets millennial needs.
It wasn't developed for millennials. It's been around for a long time. It just fits well if it's done well. And they're really free components. In any, any, I think top notch leadership development, program in an organization. is there has to be an assessment process. There's two levels of that. One is organizationally we referred to earlier about the strategy mapping to competencies, et cetera. And the other is the individual level where it gets it where it's
where it evolves into an individual development plan. The second thing is the execution of those individual development plans. And thirdly, with oversight. One of the things I found, I did a large succession planning project for AMN. I finished it over 18 months or a year ago.
AMN Healthcare Podcasts (34:21.6)
I was brought back into the organization and I wanted to find out where were we on the individual development planning and oversight. And unfortunately I found out that 60 % of the people with 25 original participants had not had a meeting with their supervisor about their IDP since I left oversight of the program. So.
You know, having a talent advisory committee, I believe it should be at the top level of an organization, especially if it really agrees, especially planning for roles, but there has to be oversight and commitment to it and measurement. Are we getting what we need, the ROI for all of our investment? Is it helping us drive strategy? Is it retaining people?
all of those things that we need to measure. the assessment piece, the leader of the IDP, our development planning piece, and the oversight piece are the three main components of having a great leadership development program. Richard, you used a word that we haven't addressed, and that is cost, right?
One of the, you know, this has been a rough year for healthcare, right? 2023 was tough, 24 is still tough for about 50 % of our hospitals. And I'm not sure that 25 with potential rate reductions in governmental payers on the horizon is gonna be any different. And so cost is a factor that all organizations face. And I don't think it would be a surprise
to say Richard and I have found that leadership development programs, that soft stuff, training, I hate that word, but that's one of the first and easiest things to cut, right? Because it doesn't impact direct patient care. The ROI on something like that is really hard to manage. But we think that, Richard, I'm gonna quote Richard here by saying,
AMN Healthcare Podcasts (36:34.764)
You know, when that comes up in a budgetary meeting, his question is always, can we really afford to not be developing our leaders? What's the cost of not developing our leaders? And I think now with the post-Boomer generation, the cost of not developing your, you know, all of the management within your organization and providing them with that opportunity then becomes the cost of turnover. And just being without
leadership, you can only double up for so long, but the cost of turnover is very high and individual development programs and helping people achieve their own aspirations solves for that. And I would argue that the cost of a leadership development program or in any development program is invaluable. It's not calculable according to the things that all CFOs love. Well, let's put some perspective around costs,
Because the research is pretty clear. Most learning and development needs to be on the floor. A lot of the research would say two thirds, any kind of leadership development would be on the job activities and opportunities, being parts of projects. It isn't going off to someplace to learn something. Not the same, those can't be great endeavors if they're brought back.
and the person is also actually has to actualize those. And somehow there's a measure of that. There was a Forbes article that came out in August of this year that 60 % of training never works. So I think the focus has to be things like, you know, we talked about earlier, the mentorships, the opportunity to be on projects and help you grow and learn in an area that maybe you're
you need the opportunity to be exposed to. I think the other you have to think about is, especially as it relates to long-term thinking about succession planning is, how do you continue to add to the enterprise view of that individual? How are they able to get involved in activities in the organization that lets them see something else in the organization? And there's lots of ways to do that and it is a progressive thing.
AMN Healthcare Podcasts (39:02.562)
But think in terms of that your leadership development, resourcing is finding opportunities within the organization to grow and learn. Yeah, absolutely. It's a, it's a fundamental fundamental piece of, the, of the whole conversation. Thanks so much. This is all the time we have, unfortunately, I think this could go on forever. There's so much to talk about in terms of, leadership and succession and how to create programs that, foster a good culture within leadership.
Christina and Richard, thank you so much for taking the time. This was absolutely fantastic. Thank you so much. pleasure. Thank you for joining us today on Elevate Care. If you found this episode valuable, please consider sharing it with a colleague and subscribing to our show on your favorite podcast platform. You can learn more about this episode and our show on our website at amnhelfcare.com and follow us on social media to stay updated on new episodes and the ever-changing world of healthcare.