In this episode of Elevate Care, host Kerry Perez speaks with Ben Harber, Vice President of Interim Solutions at B.E. Smith, about the critical role of interim leadership in healthcare. They discuss the unique challenges and opportunities that arise during leadership transitions, the importance of finding the right fit for interim leaders, and how these leaders can drive transformational change within organizations. Ben shares insights on the appeal of interim leadership careers and emphasizes the need for healthcare systems to view interim leaders as valuable assets rather than mere vacancy fillers. The conversation concludes with a focus on maximizing ROI through effective interim leadership.
In this episode of Elevate Care, host Kerry Perez speaks with Ben Harber, Vice President of Interim Solutions at B.E. Smith, about the critical role of interim leadership in healthcare. They discuss the unique challenges and opportunities that arise during leadership transitions, the importance of finding the right fit for interim leaders, and how these leaders can drive transformational change within organizations. Ben shares insights on the appeal of interim leadership careers and emphasizes the need for healthcare systems to view interim leaders as valuable assets rather than mere vacancy fillers. The conversation concludes with a focus on maximizing ROI through effective interim leadership.
Chapters
00:00 Introduction to Interim Leadership
03:09 The Importance of Interim Leadership in Healthcare
06:09 Finding the Right Fit for Interim Leaders
09:10 The Appeal of Interim Leadership Careers
12:12 Maximizing ROI with Interim Leaders
15:00 Conclusion and Key Takeaways
About Ben
Ben Harber leads the Interim Leadership organization for B.E. Smith Leadership Solutions. As an accomplished healthcare executive, he brings years of progressive operational leadership experience to his role. Ben provides strategic vision, leadership, and direction to B.E. Smith Leadership Solutions and is widely regarded by clients and candidates as one of the most respected leaders in the industry. With nine years at B.E. Smith, he has consistently delivered increased value and improved efficiencies for client partner organizations.
Ben is recognized as an expert in multi-site healthcare operations, large medical group management, ACO operations, product management, large-scale revenue operations, reinsurance, and health plan provider contracting. As a turnaround operations leader, he has provided insight and expertise across more than 8,000 engagements during his tenure at B.E. Smith.
Before joining B.E. Smith, Ben spent nearly a decade at DaVita, where he achieved significant success. His accomplishments included reorganizing and turning around DaVita's revenue operations, setting records in managing the peritoneal dialysis product line, and developing the framework for the first renal-focused ACO. His passion for early identification of end-stage renal disease led him to create the globally recognized website, KidneySmart.org.
Prior to DaVita, Ben spent seven years at GE Capital’s healthcare reinsurance division, where he developed a managed care network to assist reinsurance customers with catastrophic and first-dollar risk. During his time at GE, he launched Net Promoter Score surveying for a $10 billion unit and served as an expert in sales force effectiveness, purchase likelihood, and customer loyalty.
Ben holds a Bachelor of Administration in Finance and a Master of Business Administration from Rockhurst University in Kansas City, Missouri. He also earned Six Sigma Black Belt and Lean certifications from GE Capital. Active in his community, Ben serves on several civic boards.
AMN Healthcare Podcast (00:00.328)
Welcome to Elevate Care. I'm your host, Keri Perez, and today we're talking all things interim leadership. I am thrilled to welcome to the show Ben Harber, who is the head of interim solutions at B.E. Smith. Ben, welcome to the show. Thank you. Awesome. Happy to have you. OK, would you mind giving a little bit more of an intro to our guest about who you are? Sure.
Thank you so much for having me, Kerry.
AMN Healthcare Podcast (00:20.406)
I've spent a lifetime, or a career lifetime in healthcare. I'm a former interim leader, a few years of that on my own. And then for the last eight and a half years, I've been in the interim leadership portion of AMN, B. Smith. And I've been leading that organization since the first of the year as its official leader. But I've worked about every role within that group over the last eight and a half years.
So it seems like very obvious maybe what interim leadership is, but maybe just to give a base for our audience. Can you describe it a little bit more?
Sure. Our candidates and then interims are folks that have had a long career in healthcare. They are seasoned experts and they are looking for, usually at the tail end of their career, they're looking for ways to really invest their skills in ways that are flexible and not permanent. They want to land at an organization, install changes, work for transformation. And then by the time it's turning into regular weekly meetings,
it's time for them to roll off and go on to their next challenge. And they leave behind a really profound contribution and input to the organization.
I love that. So I guess moving into some of the questions here, you you were just describing sort of coming in, coming out. It seems like healthcare leadership transitions can maybe be a time of chaos or uncertainty, potentially even opportunity. Maybe tell me a little bit more about, you know, why leadership and interim leadership is more crucial now than ever.
AMN Healthcare Podcast (01:45.474)
You know, right now, Kerry, our clients are seeing increased financial pressures as throughout health care. We're having leadership gaps. A lot of our roles that we're responding to have been roles that have been pent up in terms of delayed retirements or movements. And now that we're far enough away from COVID, those changes are happening. And so we see more of a need to bring in leaders to help fill those gaps for those periods.
as well as there's a need for rapid transformation. A lot of our clients are calling us and not for vacancy fills or seat warmers or chair fillers, but they have a need, they have an issue that they need to or address. I also often say that the two major cohorts, if we look at interim leadership now more than ever, is first, taking chaos to calm, or second,
installing transformational change that lasts. Our interim leaders are embedded. They are not a consultant on the scene. They are a leader. They are part of that organization and they do the sensing. They have the ability to reach into the organization as an operator and they have the ability to leave behind them and hand off behind them change that is going to stay past a few quarters.
That's interesting, because on the surface, you might not think an interim leader might be charged with that. Maybe just kind of keeping things together, keeping things moving, but actually doing a transformational change as an aspect of interim leadership is very interesting. Do you have maybe a specific example of a leader that we have placed who has done some sort of transformational change?
Sure, I have several. couldn't give out details specifically, but I think of one not too long ago, an EVP at a major health system, and her charge was really to make an assessment in terms of a very wide organization, lay out kind of a talent structure, look at the future growth plan for the system, and then identify a plan forward, including
AMN Healthcare Podcast (04:01.674)
assessing the existing leadership team for her group, as well as the gaps that they needed to fill. And the system was very happy with her work. And we have her on another engagement after she's rolled off. So she's going to spread more and more ripples out there. But but often that's an example that I could say is frequent. A lot of our leaders go into situations that are meant to be someone temporary. They are making some hard decisions.
as a right hand to a permanent leadership team. They are providing an assessment and recommendations, and then they're also executing on them where there may be some residual political capital spent if it was a permanent person. Our interim leaders are able to do that knowing that they won't be in the ongoing operation.
Makes a lot of sense and sounds like a big impact. Yes it is. And it also sounds like you have to find the right person for the job. That seems like it's a very detailed part of the process and that's why firms like B Smith exist. Tell me a little bit more about what health systems should be looking for maybe when looking at a firm.
Absolutely, know be Smith and amen interim leadership very special first is a track record for success We have a long history, but it's not just pages on a wall to point at it's it's Tested results and it's a it's a it's a bench strength and a database that really means something in terms of effectiveness and success What's different about be Smith is that we
look for interim leaders, our recruiters and our search leaders and our sourcing team. We look for people that are more than just the resume, the table stakes of have you done this role on a perm side before. We're looking for somebody that can be flexible from organization to organization because that's really one of the key aspects of a successful interim leader over time is the ability to understand structure, culture, speed.
AMN Healthcare Podcast (06:09.198)
Those are all things that are going to be different from assignment to assignment. And it's not about the organization fitting the interim leader. It's the interim leader fitting the organization. And we receive very high marks from our clients. We do survey them throughout the engagement. I get those surveys directly myself. And I'm always proud to see that we've made great landings. The other thing that our clients enjoy is we provide
a whole team of ongoing support. So when I was an interim leader on my own, I was like many are out there, I was 1099, which means I was working for myself. I was using my network to find roles. And I was doing all of my own management myself, travel, lodging, working out issues, payroll situations. When we place an interim leader, my goal, our goal is that they put their full focus on that assignment.
So compared to 1099 Interims who may spend half a day, a day a week on their own support, we have a dedicated person that supports them on assignment. So all they need to do is send a text, an email, a quick phone call, and we handle it. Our clients really appreciate that too because our clients more than ever want these interim leaders fully focused on the problems at hand, not doing any of the minutiae, bookkeeping, et cetera. So we appreciate that.
We also have the ability, if there's ever any issues, I am on the phone myself as the business leader and also former interim leader myself, where I'm providing coaching to those interim leaders if there's any bumps in the road as they land and get affiliated with the organization.
sounds very full service and white glove. A little bit off script and hopefully not giving any way too much secret sauce, but when you were talking about finding that right fit and maybe assessing some of those softer skills, how do you go about that? What is that process of that assessment?
AMN Healthcare Podcast (08:12.652)
What happens throughout our recruitment process? So we have a sourcing team that finds great people in LinkedIn, resumes, et cetera. We have recruiters that cull those lists down, and we have search leaders that interact with our clients and more directly with the candidates. But we spend enough time with the candidates to really vet them for how well they'll be an interim leader if it's the first time working with us. And we put an extraordinary amount of time into that.
I always tell the team and we all appreciate it as a team, this person coming onto our team, this coming onto a client that's been a long time friend of ours, would this be the person we want to send? So we take it to heart very strongly. So we really make sure are they going to be a great interim leader, characteristically. Secondly, we really work with our sales team and everyone else that has contact with the client so that we absorb as much of the nuances of a client as possible.
If I were to just in my own mind list out a few systems we work with, I could tell you without the camera how different they are. And they're all different in great ways, but they're different. And what that means to me and the team is we need to make sure we're fitting the right ones to the right assignment. And it's a hope that everyone in this business does that. What I can attest to is B. Smith does it better than anybody else.
That's great. And in this world of technological advances, it is so important that relationships are kind of key, especially for leaders. In fact, I know we just had a survey, or B.E. Smith just put out a survey, and it looked like the most important thing for retaining leaders was around organization and culture and liking your colleagues. So how important it must be to make sure that it's a good fit and really spending the time to get to know them. So thank you.
Absolutely.
AMN Healthcare Podcast (10:03.928)
Great, okay, so being on both sides, having been an interim leader and now, you know, on the other side of helping to place them, why should executives even think about pursuing a career as an interim?
You know, when I think about, again, a career in healthcare and I think of my permanent roles and my interim roles, you know, there's all, there's the same characteristics applied to working as they would across those groups. But what our interim leaders really want to do is make the biggest, deepest impact to an organization in a relatively short time. And that fits the appetite of our clients. They also really enjoy a challenge. So,
I can tell you Carrie, it's not been a handful of conversations I've been in when we've been working on some extraordinary searches where folks ask me, they're looking for a Mount Everest. They're looking for, talked to a CFO candidate a week before last and we were discussing an opportunity and he was really kind of grilling me on, is this gonna be enough to sink my teeth in? And so those are kind of the caliber of folks that we look for and that we enjoy and our clients do because
They want the big hairy messes. They enjoy kind of putting up that garage door and seeing the mess that they're gonna eventually be able to pull the car into afterwards. So enjoying the challenge and then the flexibility. So as I mentioned, it's not our leaders that we look for. They understand that from job to job or assignment to assignment, it's gonna be different. And they enjoy that. They are not the type, as a matter of fact, we probably reject them as a process.
if they're too structure bound to something personal. We look for folks on the very front end that can see each engagement as something that they're going to have to acclimate to. And what they do really well is they do that quickly. So the overall, they do that in the first weeks, far less than a month. They're finding out kind of what the internal structure is, cultural is, who's connected to who and so forth.
SpeakAMN Healthcare Podcast11.566)
A lot of great information. I guess what would be the biggest takeaway for somebody in healthcare considering interim leadership?
I would say, kind of as we started, I wouldn't look at interim as a spend or as a seat filler, vacancy filler, somebody to fill that role, whatever the role is, I would look at it terms of an ROI or yield. What could us having somebody beyond our normal hiring territory, what could, if we put the word up, the flag up to see,
If we really wanted to fill in the blank role, how could we get the best talent here for X amount of months, half a year to really not just do the job, but make a difference and a difference at the last. And a lot of our clients are looking for that versus the past where it's just a vacancy field play. Now in these times, it's more of a, want to know our director that can change our game. We want to know our director that can help us with throughput that can help us.
connect all these departments that can help us improve our relations with our surgeons and so forth. And so what I would suggest and what our best clients do is really look at that spend in terms of a yield and an ROI so it's more than just a fill.
Seems like such a crucial and important role and I definitely learned that it is more than a seat filler Definitely change that that last so Ben. Thank you so much before we wrap I mentioned a little bit about a survey that be Smith just released about leadership trends Is there anything else that you'd like to share from that?
AMN Healthcare Podcast (13:53.358)
You know, I would just say that in those in those trends parts about engagement relations with our colleagues responding to our clinician burnout This is where again an interim leader being brought into the mix to change the game for you is important I work with a lot of clients and I've been on that other side before where someone from the outside
can be brought in and that is something that changes the calculus. Even if it's for X amount of months, half a year, it changes the dynamics and it can really unlock some things that are stuck. So with this latest trends report, we see some things that are typical or expected, maybe a little bit heightened as we come out of COVID, but the interim leader can really be that catalyst to not just shake things up, but to put things on the right trajectory.
Excellent Ben anything else before we wrap up this episode?
I think we've covered it, but I really do appreciate being here and being able to speak to you about interim leadership.
same here, Ben. Thank you so much and thank you so much for joining on Elevate Care and we will see you next time. Thank you for joining us today on Elevate Care. If you found this episode valuable, please consider sharing it with a colleague and subscribing to our show on your favorite podcast platform. You can learn more about this episode and our show on our website at amnhalfcare.com and follow us on social media to stay updated on new episodes and the ever-changing world of healthcare.