Welcome to Season 2 of Elevate Care, where Kerry Perez takes the helm as our new host! In this episode, Kerry interviews Nishan Sivathasan, the Division President of Technology and Workforce Solutions at AMN Healthcare and co-host of our show. Together, they explore a range of topics, from industry change predictions to the integration of technology in healthcare. Delving into the patient-centric approach and the noble pursuit of healthcare excellence, they emphasize the importance of being adaptable in healthcare systems, as it is vital in staying ahead of the curve in a rapidly evolving industry. From virtual nursing to AI integration and patient-centric models, they discuss how these innovations are revolutionizing care delivery and improving patient outcomes. Join us as we uncover the transformative impact of technology on healthcare, the necessity of adapting to industry changes, and our unwavering commitment to providing quality care to every patient. Stay informed, empowered, and inspired to shape the future of healthcare with us.
Welcome to Season 2 of Elevate Care, where Kerry Perez takes the helm as our new host! In this episode, Kerry interviews Nishan Sivathasan, the Chief Strategy and Experience Officer at AMN Healthcare and co-host of our show. Together, they explore a range of topics, from industry change predictions to the integration of technology in healthcare. Delving into the patient-centric approach and the noble pursuit of healthcare excellence, they emphasize the importance of being adaptable in healthcare systems, as it is vital in staying ahead of the curve in a rapidly evolving industry. From virtual nursing to AI integration and patient-centric models, they discuss how these innovations are revolutionizing care delivery and improving patient outcomes. Join us as we uncover the transformative impact of technology on healthcare, the necessity of adapting to industry changes, and our unwavering commitment to providing quality care to every patient. Stay informed, empowered, and inspired to shape the future of healthcare with us.
Welcome aboard to Season 2 of Elevate Care!
Learn more about the show: https://www.amnhealthcare.com/campaign/elevate-care-podcast/
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TIMESTAMPS
(00:25) Meet Nishan and Kerry
(03:33) 2024 ViVe Conference Key Takeaways (AI, Technology Advancements, Virtual Nursing, Adaptability in Healthcare Systems)
(7:04) Change Predictions for the Industry
(8:42) Adopting Technology
(13:57) Patient Centric Model
(15:38) The Noble Pursuit of Healthcare
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Welcome to Elevate Care, the show where healthcare professionals, visionaries, and thought leaders come together to discuss the endless possibilities of healthcare innovation. I'm so thrilled to be joined here by my esteemed colleague and former leader, I may add, Nishan Sivathasan. Welcome, Nishan. Thank you, Kerry. It's great to be here. Awesome. Happy to have you. So, Nishan, before we get going, just want to tell the audience a little bit about yourself. You're currently our president of Technology Workforce Solutions. but also have held a few other roles here at AMN. And before, can you tell us a little bit about yourself? Yeah, sure. Prior to my current role, I was responsible for M&A and strategy here at the organization. So this summer, I'll be coming up on five years overall with AMN. It's been terrific. Way back when, when I started off my career, I started off in consulting. It's been about two and a half, three years with Accenture, doing strategy and ops consulting. And then after that, I left to join a early stage company at the time, Iraq space, I've spent about seven years with them. When I started, they were about 300 million revenue, 1000 employees. When I left after seven years, we grew to about 2 billion in revenue and 6,000 folks across the globe. So give them a bit of growth in seven years. And then after buying up a bunch of companies for a number of years, I wanted to see what it was like on the other side of the table. So I joined a startup out in San Francisco, a FinTech company. actually. Think about it like PayPal for groups, effectively. Spent a couple years there. We then got acquired by Airbnb. And around that time, my wife said, Hey, it's time for you to come back home because I was on the road quite a bit. We had two boys with a third on the way. So I joined up with a retailer around the corner, JC Penny, doing e-comm strat and biz dev for them. So it was about a $12 billion retailer at the time. Two billion was e-comm and the balance was in the store. I learned a ton. You know, went from literally a hundred person startup to an organization with north of a hundred thousand employees. It's been around for over a hundred years. So radically different set of problems and challenges. And then got the call from Amen and I've been here since. So if you look at my background, I kind of simplify it by saying, you know, good bit of technology, change and strat. You know, while the industry has changed quite a bit. the way you think about and solve these problems. There's some real commonalities you can take and some different things you can too. So whenever I talk about AMN, I always tell people, hey, no healthcare background, no staffing background, but a little bit of everything else, because we've got 4,000 folks across this organization that know healthcare and staffing really, really well. So I just try to bring a different lens and perspective to it. Yeah, and I think you certainly do, from the client perspective, from consulting. to an enterprise perspective with strategy and now in a business unit and also talking to our clients. It's a really unique perspective, not to mention you've got some healthcare professionals in your family. Yeah, yeah, my wife, she's a physician. So it was a great cheat sheet for me. And she's been terrific. I'll tell you, one of the bigger things is now being inside the healthcare space, your perspective is radically changed and different. Coming from every other industry I was a part of, it sort of felt like, you know, as long as you solve for the customer, you win. In healthcare, there's certainly that aspect, but you also have some constraints, right? So reimbursements, regulations, and some of those other things. So way back in the day, she'd spend hours in her EMR system just pounding away. I'm like, you're doing something wrong. There's no way anybody should spend that much time in there. And then after joining AMN, I was like, oh, I get it. So perspective helps. Yeah, for sure. Well, with that, you recently attended the VEVE conference that was in Nashville, really soaking up a lot of trends that we're talking about. I'd love to hear a little bit of your perspective from all of these lenses. What were some of those key takeaways for you? I'll tell you the one big thing, obviously, AI was, yeah, it's one of the things, is it hype, is it real? And I would say it's sort of all the above. But everyone there was just very conscious, almost to the point of where they refused to say AI, right? Because it is being so overused. But there are some real clear applications and use cases of AIs. And some of your more progressive health systems out there are actually using it day to day, which is terrific to see. Virtual nursing is one I know you and I have talked about quite a bit at length in the last several years. And I think one of the bigger questions we've had is, hey, virtual nursing is great, but if you just use it as virtual nursing only, you're missing the full benefit. And what I saw and observed is many are using it kind of more broadly, meaning they're actually changing the workflows of their clinicians in the hospitals and healthcare systems. So. You know, many of them talked about how do you leverage or how do you actually take low risk high yield sort of workflows and move that to virtual so that folks that are there and in person can handle the other pieces of it. And so that was great to see and hear the adoption to the point where one of these healthcare systems actually said they, every single nurse that they have on their staff is a virtual nurse. Everyone is trained to do it. to the point they're actually leveraging virtual nursing as a way to minimize or alleviate burnout. So it could be, hey, Monday, I'm by the bedside, but maybe Tuesday I'm virtual, and then Wednesday I'm doing something else. So just some really cool novel applications of it. And why do you think they've cracked the code on that? Is something we've talked about as futuristic, but kind of here, kind of now, but really it's been, you know, maybe a little bit of a slower adoption. What are some of those barriers that they overcame where it's successful? Yeah, I think many of them spoke to the fact that the current environment requires that you change now, right? I forget the phrase. What is it? Pain necessitates change or? Yes. Yeah, necessity is the mother of invention. Yeah, yeah. There you go. All right. Necessity is the mother. Something's necessitating something. Yeah. But there's enough pain in the system that it's just forcing folks to really just reevaluate everything across the board. One of the really cool unlocks for me was hearing people actually talk about how it's not so much that you're just a nurse and that's it, or you're just an IT professional and that's it, but it's really about the ability for each of these individuals to cross over and have a better understanding and appreciation of what goes on in their respective worlds. So, you heard about some of these healthcare systems where they're really unlocking how to solve these. You really have the nurse. extending to have a better appreciation of technology. So they understand things like packet loss, latency issues, and that helps them actually develop the appropriate solution for them. So I think in the old world, or old days, people often thought of technology as like this pixie dust you sprinkle on something and it just works magically. But there are real constraints with technology. It can do a lot of things, but it can't do everything. And so having folks that are able to cross over and understand those things while also you know, understanding the core components of their profession is what's really helped people crack the code on some of these pieces. Very cool. So you and I have often talked about in strategy, you know, there's only so much change that a system can take, that a company can take, you kind of have to meet them where they are. So with trends that we're seeing in healthcare, there's some things that, you know, have been prognosticated about for a long time. Maybe we're starting to finally see it come true. Maybe AI is one of those examples. to the point where it feels like it's everything and nothing at the same time. In your opinion, what are some things that are maybe a little bit farther out that we have not yet seen come to fruition, but you think we still need to keep an eye on because it might be a few years out? I think on that one, what I would say is, I hate to use AI, but I'm going to use it. When I think about AI in this application, I think there are two core buckets. One is the administrative application of AI, and the other is more in the clinical workflow. I think a lot of the use case applications I heard about at the conference and ones that I see many of our clients using sit more in the administrative side, right? I think the critical unlock will be in the coming years, how and when it starts to dip into the clinical workflow. And I think there's just a lot to be unpacked there. There's our own governance, just data, who owns it, what you're doing with it, some of those pieces. So you think like kind of those last mile decision making, bunch of AI kind of looking through images of radiologists and maybe making suggestions of what the diagnosis could be and then the sort of affirmation by the clinician at the end? 100%. Yeah, I think you nailed it right there. So we'll see more and more of those use cases start to surface. Under your purview with technology workforce solutions, VMS, a vendor neutral solution. And as we've looked at the evolution of what AMN does, what other workforce solutions company does, we've evolved from a travel nurse company to an MSP provider to tech centric total talent solutions. And now we're seeing a little bit more adoption of technology. Can you talk to me a little bit more about this sort of continuum of offerings that we have for our clients? master supplier, vendor neutral. And now I feel like we're hearing a lot more about hybrid. Talk to me a little bit about that. Yeah, sure. So I'll just say, coming out of the pandemic, I think many clients and many folks across the healthcare industry are just trying to explore and understand all of their options across the continuum of workforce solutions. So to your point, there's kind of maybe three key pieces. One is vendor neutral. In between that, you've got, sorry, in between vendor neutral and master supplier, you've got hybrid. And then of course, master supplier. Just to keep it really simple, when you think about master supplier, you have one key leader driving most, if not all of your fills for your program. Vendor neutral is really open market. So really as a hospital healthcare system, you're placing your needs and your requirements from a labor standpoint, and it's placed out there for the full market to work through to fill what your needs are. And then hybrid kind of sits in the middle. It's really almost the best of both worlds. So it's still very much a vendor neutral first sort of solution, but selectively you can get some of those master supplier services that you would typically subscribe to under master supplier within that option. And what we're finding right now is you have clients kind of in very different places, and so different solutions fit very different needs, right? So the ones that want more control, transparency, you tend to see them sit more in the vendor neutral side. And then the ones that are focused a little bit more on clinical quality and some of those sort of pieces, they tend to sit more on the master supplier side. So it's really more about meeting the client where they are. I think one of the things that's maybe necessitated some of these changes is that we went through the pandemic, travel rates were a little bit elevated versus what they were pre-pandemic. And now as we start to normalize a little bit further as we're getting further and further away from the pandemic. you're actually starting to see those deltas between perm versus contingent rates start to narrow. And so that could also drive a different set of changes too for folks, right? So when the labor economics say X, maybe you respond with Y. And as those economics start to change a little bit further, you sort of figure out, hey, what makes sense for me on that. So would you say it's still kind of in flux? We're still trying to settle and define a little bit. What exactly? hybrid is and what I'm hearing is it really does depend on sort of the unique needs of a client. Think about hybrid and ultimately at the end of the day is a customized solution that sits in between vendor neutral and master supplier, right? It's for the client that effectively wants the best of both worlds. So in some cases it's, hey, give me that open market sort of opportunity, but also give me some of those traditional master supplier services that I've come to really just value and appreciate that helped me feel like I'm getting the best service for my program. Right. And there's a lot of new tech entrants that are promising a lot of cost savings with just a tech-only solution, and they're great companies as well. What I would say is, think about the perspective I shared with you earlier, that before I joined at a very different perspective or problems and thought of them very much as, you know, problems I've tackled in other industries and other spaces. And I tend to think that when you come at it with a tech-only perspective, independent or almost agnostic of the actual true underlying challenges that are unique to healthcare that you're facing, you won't be able to solve those problems as easily or your appreciation of the problem will be a little bit less sophisticated. And therefore, you'll think they need X when they really need Y, right? I'm a huge fan of competition. I think frankly, competition just makes everything better for people, right? Ultimately the customer. So I'm looking forward to seeing more and more of these tech first or tech only sort of entrance. I think it'll just elevate the game for all of us. And I would just encourage, you know, the ones that are gonna be successful in this space to really just have a, you know, deep and unique appreciation for what it is that many are facing in this industry. So the problems you solve. or the solutions you come up really with are unique to the problems that are unique to the industry and not think about healthcare as you would the commercial space. Yeah. Now, I think that's so important because it really brings home actually what we're all here trying to do, which is provide better patient care and help enable better patient care. So competition is great, a rising tide lifts all boats. And especially when we keep sort of the patient centricity there, what we're trying to solve. One other group that is under your purview is our language services technology solutions. If you could provide a little overview of what that is and maybe as we relate back to some of the healthcare trends that you were looking at, talk about how that can help with efficiency even in the workforce. Sure. So the language services business you talked about, if I just step back for a little bit, one out of every five patients across the US is of limited So our language services solution actually helps those patients feel seen, heard, and known ultimately at the end of the day. So we provide interpretation services for patients of the LEP population and that's done through one of three ways. It's either in person, over the phone, or video. It's been a great service. Many of our clients have really come to love and appreciate it. For those that use it over phone or video, effectively you walk up to an iPad. and you press the language that you want and within 20 seconds you are connected to an interpreter And because it's video they're able to see the patient as well as the provider In interpret and translate the solution many that actually use those services from us have found that Patients are discharged faster readmission rates are lower. So just overall quality of care For that patient population is much better served So, Nishan, I think last question, you opened it up talking about the VEVE Conference and how you felt very hopeful. Tell me a little bit why. There's a lot of pressures that are kind of in the healthcare space right now. And you mentioned, hey, everyone's sort of coming together to tackle this challenge. Maybe a little bit more color about why you feel hopeful about healthcare today. Ultimately, at the end of the day, the reason people find their way to healthcare is because they have a noble pursuit, okay? Um, and, and there's a real true passion. I mean, one of the things that really stood out to me at the conferences at the V1 that I referenced earlier is sure. They're really a bunch of smart folks working on these things, but man, they're incredibly passionate too. I mean, just deeply passionate to where there's a level of conviction, ownership and purpose that's really guiding them. Um, and you just can't help but feel hope, right? With all that sort of there in mind. Um, and while, while it doesn't feel like you're Seeing it and experiencing every day things are moving in the right direction One of the bigger litmus tests for me is when I meet with early stage companies So many were at the conference when I was there and I'd last maybe spoken a handful of them probably three years ago and Every single one of them has done a pivot of some sort some have pivoted more and less but It's changed. It just means they have a better understanding of the problems that are being faced out there in the market. So I think our best days are ahead of us. So looking forward to it. Love that. Nishan, thank you so much. Really appreciate our conversation today. Thanks for joining us. If you want to find out more, follow us at AMN Healthcare and listen to podcasts on your preferred platform. Thank you and talk to you next time.