In this episode of Elevate Care, we interview Barry Asin, the President of Staffing Industry Analysts (SIA), where we explore the remarkable advancements in Artificial Intelligence (AI) within the healthcare staffing sector, its crucial role in overcoming the challenges posed by the COVID-19 pandemic, and the notable trends projected for the year 2024.
In this episode of Elevate Care, we interview Barry Asin, the President of Staffing Industry Analysts (SIA), where we explore the remarkable advancements in Artificial Intelligence (AI) within the healthcare staffing sector, its crucial role in overcoming the challenges posed by the COVID-19 pandemic, and the notable trends projected for the year 2024.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
TIMESTAMPS
(01:15) Meet Barry Asin
(05:17) Healthcare Strikes
(13:20) Artificial Intelligence (AI) Advancements in Healthcare Staffing
(19:20) COVID-19 Disruptions
(25:22) Notable Trends in 2024
(36:52) Solutions and Adaptions in Healthcare Organizations
(42:04) Healthcare Costs with Inflation
(46:30) Barry’s Challenge
-------------------------------------------------------------------
ABOUT THE GUEST
A leading authority on workforce solutions worldwide, Barry Asin is renowned for his expertise on staffing and contingent labor. President of Staffing Industry Analysts (SIA) since 2010, Asin holds overall responsibility for the company’s strategy, operations and growth on a global basis. He has been with the company since 2003, where he previously held the position of Chief Analyst, leading the team responsible for SIA’s award-winning research and content.
Asin is the co-author of Breaking Through: Leadership Disciplines from Top Performing Staffing Firms and is a frequent speaker at industry events, sharing essential insights on leadership and the challenges, opportunities and rapid transformations around work today. He is quoted in major business and industry publications, including The Wall Street Journal, The New York Times, BusinessWeek, Inc. Magazine, The Atlantic, Bloomberg Business, CNBC, Marketplace, and MarketWatch among others.
Prior to joining SIA, Asin spent nearly 12 years as a senior executive at global staffing leader Adecco SA. Before Adecco, he held operations management positions with PepsiCo, and he began his professional career with Andersen Consulting, the predecessor of Accenture. He holds an M.B.A. from Harvard University and a B.S. in engineering from Princeton University.
Connect with Barry: https://www.linkedin.com/in/barryasin/
:
Welcome to Elevate Care, the show where healthcare professionals, visionaries, and thought leaders come together to explore the limitless possibilities of healthcare innovation. I'm your host, Jamey Dubke. Welcome to a journey where innovation meets humanity. Today we're excited to host Barry Asin, President of Staffing Industry Analyst, also known as SIA. He is a distinguished authority in the staffing and contingent labor sector. Barry is not only a strategic leader, but also a prolific voice in the industry, co-authoring, breaking through leadership disciplines from top performing staffing firms, and frequently sharing insights at major industry events. His expertise is regularly featured in top publications like the Wall Street Journal, the New York Times, and Businessweek. In this episode, we'll uncover the evolution and future of healthcare staffing, delve into the impact of AI and the pandemic. and explore the trends and challenges shaping the sector. Whether you're in the healthcare industry or simply interested in its future, this episode promises to be enlightening. Let's dive into a thought-provoking conversation with Barry. Barry, welcome to the show. Thank you so much for having me, Jamey, and looking forward to the conversation. Awesome. Thanks again for joining us. Barry, our listeners are always inspired by the personal journeys of our guests. Can you speak to the passion or purpose that fuels your work? Well, absolutely. I've been a client of staffing industry analysts since the early 90s, back in my time there. And the mission is pretty simple. It's all about informing, connecting, and elevating the power of the company. the workforce solutions ecosystem, that whole world of how people get connected to work. And so for me, it's really fun and interesting to see how the world of work has been evolving over the last couple of decades and the way that people get jobs and that the employers out there get the workers that they need and get the work done that's important for them. And so it's just, I mean, that's really what I've focused the bulk of my career on, has been helping executives on all ends of that, try to understand what the changes are that are out there and how to prepare their organizations for that world of work. Awesome, thank you for sharing. To begin, could you tell our listeners how SIA has played a role in advising healthcare organizations globally? And could you share your vision for SIA's future? Yeah, so I think I alluded to this a little bit in the beginning. I've been with the organization over 20 years and really seen it grow. You know, I mean, as I said, the whole purpose of the business and what I've been doing is, you know, work helping organizations look around the corner. at the trends and developments that are out there in terms of connecting work and workers, particularly in helping to understand what we call the workforce solutions ecosystem, which is all about all the sort of third party HR services and solutions that help organizations get the workers that they need. And so, that's what SIA has been about. We do that both for the folks on the supply side. organizations like AMN and others who are suppliers in that ecosystem, as well as the end users, the enterprises, the healthcare organizations, and others who are trying to figure out their talent strategy and trying to solve their workforce challenges. That's what we're all about at SIA is helping make that connection. We do that. We talk about informing. We do all sorts of research, 200 research reports a year. And, but, you know, a big part of our mission as well is building connections. And so we host a number of conferences and webinars and all sorts of ways for people to network and learn from each other. And hopefully what we're doing, and we've seen this over time, is that the staffing industry, which is the core that we started out researching way back when, but now more, this whole workforce solutions ecosystem is getting more professional over time and becoming more sophisticated and having greater impact and getting more attention at the C levels of large organizations. And I think that's part of our mission as well, is just to help take that to the next level. As far as going into the future, I would just say that, this feels like a revolution in the workforce that people sort of wake up and go, wow, these changes are overnight, but any change like that, there's groundwork that's gone on. for a long period of time. And so it's like one of those overnight changes that's 20 years in the making, I think. And the pandemic, well, I know we'll get into that, Jamey. Absolutely. The pandemic has really just lit some of that on fire and raised the awareness. And so we're excited about that in that people are paying more attention to new innovative ways of getting work done to... more flexible ways of working rather than just the sort of the old tried and true nine to five job, which maybe was never true in the healthcare world. But you know, I know we'll get more into that. No, thank you so much for that. I know our organization appreciates the insights that you provide as well. And you're 100% correct. I think COVID accelerated a lot of those changes. And even though we think those things happened overnight, it's that 10,000 hour principle, right? Like that stuff took time to change and the generations in the workforce have massive implications in that as well. But I'd like to kind of shift our focus to one of those things that happened last year, which was a significant healthcare strike. And so reflecting on that strike that happened in 2023, I'd love to hear how you see this impacting the balance between. permanent and contingent staffing costs in healthcare? And are there any emerging trends suggesting a shift or equalization in those costs? Yeah, well, so I think there's a bunch in there. And the first is just to think a little bit about what was driving all the strikes and labor actions that we've seen. And I don't think it's over. So I think that we're... Strikes are going to be in health care as, you know, I think this is likely to be an ongoing thing here. And part of it is the balance of power between workers and employers, particularly in health care. But I think, you know, a lot of the core of this for health care workers is, you know, it's about respect and it's about the levels of burnout that they've been feeling and, you know, how hard it is. for healthcare workers to do their jobs. And so that I think is a lot of what drove and has been driving the labor actions. And in the short term, I mean, what we really saw through the pandemic was, a lot of people leaving the workforce, particularly the healthcare workforce, made at first it was sort of a rush into this crisis the healthcare workers are people who really care deeply about taking care of their patients and it's very mission driven. But at some point, I think that healthcare workers realized that they have to take care of themselves as well. And so that drove a lot of the, and I think has been driving the strikes. And... frankly, a lot of what happened over the course of the pandemic was workers who were looking at the deal they were getting in their organization and saying, I need something better. And they realize, I mean, this is particularly true in nurse staffing. I think they realized that in a lot of ways what the world of contingent work, travel nursing in particular was sort of ground zero of that, offered a better deal. better pay, better hours, more flexibility, more control, all those sorts of things. And so, you know, it's natural, I think, now the world, we can talk a little more about sort of where that's coming back to, but I think that, you know, hospitals and healthcare organizations are sort of realizing now that, you know, the way to solve their talent issue. in part has got a rest in improving the deal for their core workforce. And so, you know, the strikes and the pressure on pay and a lot of it on working conditions, I think that is sort of a reset that we're going through as we come out of the pandemic. And You know, what we've seen in healthcare staffing was a huge run up in 2020, 21, 22, and then a coming back to normal in 23 and now into 24, still at elevated levels from before because the crisis in shortage workers is still so intense and that really hasn't gone away. But things are coming back more into balance. And so it's been a real roller coaster ride. I know, you know, back in November, we had our healthcare staffing summit with many of the leaders of some of the largest healthcare staffing firms and a whole range of firms. And, you know, you could see everybody the sort of whiplash that's been going on over the last couple of years here. So, you know, it is coming back to, you know, to more normal. the levels of use of healthcare staffing, particularly travel nursing, was not sustainable for many hospitals. And so it is getting rebalanced now, and I think the strikes are sort of another sign of just of the pressure that's on leaders in healthcare organizations to find that right balance for their workforce. So I don't know if that answers your question. question totally there, Jamey, but that's what I'm thinking about that. No, you did great. You provided a really compelling perspective on staffing dynamics. So speaking of those shifts, many of our listeners are keenly interested in the role of technology, particularly AI and healthcare. From SIA's viewpoint, how is AI poised to transform healthcare staffing? Yeah, I mean, we do a lot of research on AI. Obviously, there's a whole range, and we'll get into maybe a little bit of all the ways technology is changing health care and health care staffing. But AI, of course, everybody's really interested in that. Right now, it's getting so much attention. I think there's a couple of factors that we found in our research. One is that AI is changing, is going to change the skills that are needed out there. So healthcare staffing firms are very responsive to the market, you know, always looking for where are the skill shortages? Where can we find the pools of talent and the like? And I, so I think that, you know, AI in a lot of ways is going to, particularly over the longer term will change the sort of skills that people need. And In the shorter term, I think that it's going to, it's gonna help a lot with the worker shortage. So, you know, it's particularly true that, like if you think of all the areas of the economy, and we look across, you know, all segments of the economy, but, you know, have a particular focus in healthcare, there's probably nowhere, you know, in the economy that's more paper pushing. If there's any, you know, if you thought of a, Like a, you'd think maybe there'd just be more, obviously there's a lot of hands-on patient care, but there's a whole lot of administration that goes on. I think AI is gonna really help with that, help to streamline it, help to make the healthcare workforce more productive. So that'll help alleviate some of this intense shortage. I don't think it's gonna make it go away. It'll change the skills that are needed. I think people are gonna need to be more comfortable. with, you know, sort of tech-driven skills. In some ways, it should free people up to do more patient care, which I think is great to do only the things that humans can do and that, you know, that they, the sort of hands-on work with that. So that's on like the skills side. On the side of like the actual operations of connecting workers with work, which is what healthcare staffing does all the time, You know, I think it's those processes can get better as well. We're already seeing it in some ways in things like skills assessment, you know, helping to automate that, allow the matching process to work better so that you get the right worker matched with the right opening or like the highest probability of success. All of that is likely to make recruiters more productive. And then there's also the whole administrative side of that. I think it'll take some of that administration out of it and allow them to spend more time with the clinicians, coaching them and being career coaches. So I guess if you get my sort of gist on it, I'm fairly optimistic about it, particularly in the healthcare space. I think there's all sorts of potential negative side effects that are broader societally and like, are we ever gonna be able to trust a video again or a recording or a photograph or all those sorts of things. There are challenges on trust, but in the healthcare space where there's such an intense shortage of talent, I think that it's gonna be a huge plus and it's gotta get worked through. The big challenge in adoption right now is The pace of tech change is way faster than us humans can keep up with. That's right. So, you know, and particularly our institutions and, you know, healthcare institutions are not like necessarily the fastest changing organizations out there. And so that's going to be a challenge as well. Well, usually their budgets for IT or technology is minuscule compared to what most other organizations have access to. But I really appreciated how you talked about humans wanting to operate at the top of their license and what it allows us to do. So when I think about nurses, right now, currently, data says right now that a nurse only gets to touch a patient about 30% of the time. And so you have nurses who are incredibly, and all clinicians actually, even doctors, who potentially only get four to five minutes with each patient, and really were kind of educated, like I wanna invest time, I wanna be able to solve all the problems. And... they don't really have access to do that. So I'm really also encouraged by what AI does because you're right, the thing that I like to talk about because I'm in talking about talent all the time is the HI, which is the human intelligence. And that's a skillset and a meta skill that right now with the generations that are coming into the workforce, they really need help and support and being able to evolve that. So I really, I think you're spot on too with how we're gonna be able to turn our, even our TA teams. and kind of unleash them even in the pre-boarding process on like, hey, here's the competencies that you're gonna need, and here's how you could walk into the door feeling even more confident. So thank you for sharing that. Yeah, thank you. I think you really bring up some great points there, Jamey, and the, you know, anything that can get nurses and clinicians like off their, you know, their medical record systems and like, you know. face-to-face, hands-on interacting with patients, I think is gonna be a good thing. Absolutely. So AI's influence seems to be a pivotal factor for the future. And you mentioned this earlier, but another transformative factor has been the COVID-19 pandemic, particularly in how healthcare is being delivered. So with that exponential growth in telehealth, what do you believe are the long-term implications for care delivery and healthcare employment? Yeah. Well, I think that's, you know, the pandemic, we're still working through it. You know, I know that everybody is sort of like ready to move on and all that, but I do think that we're still, you know, so much of what's going on in society and in the healthcare system today, it's all like echoes of all the disruptions that we've had. And so, you know, telehealth is one example, right? Like sort of almost immediately. we had this moment where things that were like possible before, but just were not things that people were doing, like remote patient care and the like, suddenly became like, we've got to do these things. And so a lot of change came. I think that it opened people's minds to different ways of working. And You know, the long-term implication for that, I think, is only positive given this intense shortage that we've got for talent. You know, particularly if you think about rural settings where they just don't have a physician, I mean, or they don't have like qualified specialists and the like, or access to specialists, all of that is gonna be helped a lot by telehealth. I think that... part of what we need to have is the regulatory environment around that and the licensing and all that, and reimbursement systems need to reward that. But I think that change will come. It does seem like we've maybe slipped back a little bit as the immediate crisis has eased, but change moves forward in these sort of step functions here. And so, I think long-term, it's a real positive for healthcare delivery. It also envisions, frankly, the healthcare system was not devised very much with patients in mind, right? It was devised with the healthcare workers in mind, particularly like around the needs of the physician, like bring everybody into this one spot, have them sit around and wait and disrupt their day. What a great solution to have. for at least the things that don't require that hands-on in-person things, that just like a brief conversation with a caregiver, I think that if we can get the reimbursements and the regulations right around all of that, it's gonna be a huge upside for the healthcare system, particularly in a time of talent shortage. And just add on top of that, if we can figure it out, You know, there is a whole global labor force out there, and we're seeing this across the economy. And, you know, healthcare gets, you know, a little bit more problematic maybe, but I think we'll work through this over time, and the ability to leverage workers, you know, across state boundaries or across national boundaries as well, I think is a positive thing for being able to take care of an aging population. in a situation where we're really constrained in terms of the workforce. I really like the premise around how we don't necessarily have a healthcare system that was always patient centric. And now it's almost like we've talked about the demands from the workforce, but there's also demands from patients, right? Because... they, most healthcare plans now give them the option or the opportunity to do telehealth or to go in person. And I think after the pandemic, most people didn't want to go into an office full of sick people if they just needed something checked versus, man, I need, I need immediate care and, or an urgent care situation. So I love the possibilities of bringing kind of the hospital or care from the home and allowing people to even think about how patient care is delivered and to your point, then that opens up the possibility of all these beautiful skill sets, diversity and competencies that may not exist in one area or one city. And now we have the access to go talk to the specialist who's in Italy, who can absolutely help us diagnose the situation. So I love the fact that you mentioned all of that. I think that's, you know, and if you combine that with AI, I think, you know, just think about, we didn't really, I didn't. I think we've talked about it before, but you think about these AI systems that are going to help nurses and nurse practitioners do more of the things that doctors do. And given the physician shortage and all that, I think there's a lot of productivity improvements coming and frankly just in the nick of time. So, I think that as the population continues to age. It's an opportunity and the challenge is just managing through the change and the transition. Those are really the challenges. It's sort of getting from here to there, but it's helpful to at least have the vision of how it can be better. Absolutely. Then to your point, what does that change management strategy look like and how do you help both patients and your clinicians get there? Awesome. Thank you. Speaking of change, looking back at this past year... there have been tons of notable trends emerging. What would you identify Barry as your top three trends in healthcare staffing this year? And why are those important for our audience now? Yeah, I think that, you know, there's a bunch of important things going on. If I think of like the main categories, and we've probably we've touched on some of this before. I think, you know, the first off is just, we've always had this chronic shortage of healthcare workers, or at least for the last 10, 15, 20 years, since I've been looking at the space. This ongoing shortage, it's gotten even more intense. The pandemic sort of lit that on fire. We've got an aging healthcare workforce. And so that shortage, I think, is just an ongoing trend that's like a fact of the world in terms of healthcare workers. It drives a lot of things. One of the things we're seeing with strikes and other is that the talent is increasingly in the driver's seat. And so it's on the shoulders of the executives running healthcare organizations, the folks staffing those organizations and others to really adapt to this new reality of how to make work better for the workers who are out there, how to deliver them the flexibility that they need, how to give them the deal that's going to be attractive to them and their life. So that trend has been front and center in 2020, 21, 22, now 23, it's not gonna go away. On top of that, The other big thing and maybe related to that has just been the pandemic, how that's lit that on fire, how that has opened people's eyes to new ways of working, to maybe some new models, to ways of thinking about the problems differently. And we've seen a lot of the volatility and things that have come through there. And then finally, I would say, the impact of technology. And so we talked a little bit about AI, where we've seen a big impact in healthcare staffing in the shorter term, it has been around what we would call sort of the self-service revolution, the digital transformation, the platformization of healthcare staffing. And part of this is driven by workers and as you know, as the, as the newer younger workers come into the workforce, into the healthcare workforce, they're much more comfortable with a self-service model than, than older workers. You know, I think about my kids who like, who are in their early 20s, the thought of picking up the phone and having a conversation with an adult, that's terrifying. And they They'd much rather do the research themselves and they'll talk to somebody if they need to, but like if they've got a very specific question. We saw that happen in healthcare staffing over the last, you know, over these past couple of years, you know, the big growth in self-service platforms. It changes the role of recruiters. The recruiters are doing less of the like, hey, I've got a great job for you here. and more of the, okay, you've found the three great jobs that our system matched for you. Let me tell you more details about this. Let me answer your questions. What can I, you know, how can I help you be prepared for what it might be like to work in this particular setting? You know, what's the sort of inside scoop? So, you know, we touched on that a little earlier. It's sort of letting the machines do what they do best and letting the humans do what they do best. And so that whole tech revolution, I think, has been changing the world of healthcare staffing. The technology revolution has been changing pretty much every part of the economy. What is this saying? That software is eating the world. And I think that's true in many things that are tech-driven. AI is sort of the new... cool, sexy part of this, but there's a whole bunch of other digital transformation algorithms, process changes that are tech driven and those are still playing out right now. That's going to change. It already is changing the way that people get connected with work and the way the processes run around that. Thank you for those trends. I think those are very real and still very current. I also like to think about this technology kind of burden that they're all facing because they're trying to catch up to what's happening and AI is making everything change at a different pace that even most systems can stay up to date with. And so I liked how you talked about processes because what I like to do when I'm coaching leaders too is also trying to help them think. It's great to have a technology, but if you have outdated processes, all you're gonna do is try to then implement those into a technology and they're not gonna solve your problem either. So it's really a combination of how do you make sure that you're optimizing your workforce, your processes, and then using technology to enable kind of that change and that transformation. That's a nice way of summarizing that sort of people process technology. It's you've got to get all three of those correct for sure. Awesome. So Barry, tell me what you're predicting for, for healthcare staffing in 2024. And do you expect any new trends or a continuation of any of the current ones? Yeah. I, you know, I think that the, um, I mean, part of what we do for leaders of healthcare staffing organizations and is, you know, forecast like spending in the industry and the like, um, the We saw big, we saw huge growth through the, you know, 2021, 22 came back to earth in 2023, as particularly true in the nurse staffing business. 24, I think is shaping up to be more moderate, you know, closer to flat, I think, in terms of growth on the nurse staffing. side, maybe down, still down a little bit, just renormalizing depending on where you are. We're seeing a lot of growth in allied health. You know, allied is such a disparate area, you know, it's basically as we categorize it, it's sort of everything clinician clinical other than nurses and physicians. So there's a whole bunch of different skills in there. But if you're more growth there. On the physician side of thing, the growth was sort of muted in 2020 and 21 and has recovered now and that's right now fastest growing area in healthcare staffing. We think in 24 is going to be the locum tenants, temporary physicians. That's sort of come back. As far as the other... So that's sort of the big macro stuff. As far as the other trends, I think, you know, one of the things we're seeing is organizations starting to rethink their whole talent strategy. And particularly, we think about things like talent pools and direct sourcing and what we would call total talent acquisition, the idea of organizations thinking holistically about... all the different types of talent that they need and trying to get ahead of the curve a little bit. I think healthcare organizations have tended to be quite reactive of the crisis of the day, oh my God, I need 50 nurses here or 20 x-ray techs or whatever it is and try to get out in front of that and think about which jobs are best your core workforce, which are part of a fluctuating contingent workforce, a little bit of planning and building of pools of talent that can help with that over time, and just thinking in a more holistic way around the whole talent equation. So those are some of the things that we're seeing in You know, the final thing, it does seem to be calming down a little bit, you know, but there's been a lot of sort of legislation or action going on around, you know, government tends to be sort of a lagging indicator, I guess, on things like that. And so there's been all sorts of interesting things going on around the use of healthcare staffing and the like. And I'm not sure what's going to become of all of that. It does seem, you know. The market has largely taken care of it. So I suspect, you know, we may hear a few more things about that, but largely those sorts of things may tend to go away in 2024. Awesome. Thank you so much. Predicting future trends is always fun in light of those trends and challenges. We'll have to check back at the end of the year and you'll see how I'm doing. Oh my gosh, absolutely. That'll be your scorecard, Barry, this year. I'd be like, how close was I? I do like the fact though that you mentioned kind of those demands now that our government is putting on even specific to states where they're talking about ratios, right? And so we know ratios always have implications on the workforce as well as patient care. So I am really excited if I think from a regulatory perspective to see the government really putting demands on hospitals and in states specifically to ensure that our nurses and our clinicians are safe in their environment and so are the patients. I think part of that, you know, that'll go to the core of a lot of the issues that the healthcare workforce has, right, is around just the staffing levels and the burnout and all of that. There's a whole, you know, it gets so complicated with the financial element of this and, you know, ultimately the reimbursements that hospitals receive and all of that. So we're, you know, fingers crossed that all that will work out. I hope so as well too. So in light of those trends and challenges, innovative solutions are often born. So what I'd love to hear from you are what solutions or adaptations are you seeing within healthcare organizations to ensure efficient and effective staffing? Yeah, I mean, I think I sort of touched on those a little bit earlier. You know, I think the more holistic thinking about total talent, this idea of thinking in an integrated way about all the different talent sources, the adoption of technology and a platform type of technology, the impact of AI, I think, and as we sort of down the road here to help more, I think, rethinking of processes around the needs of the workers. and the patients. I think there's opportunities in all of that. And for healthcare organizations, I guess the other thing I would say is just like a rethinking of the deal that they're offering to their full-time workforce as well as to the contingent workforce to make sure that they're sort of using in the right way those different talent sources and making sure that they work together effectively as possible. And we do see that some organizations, there's definitely this interest in sort of direct sourcing and use of talent pools and things like that. And that does seem to be growing as well. I think that the key challenge for leaders there is to... find the right balance and what they need by like particular area, by skill, you know, all the different, there's not like a one size fits all solution for all cases. This is a multifaceted challenge, getting the right staffing levels. Well, and every hospital is going to be on a different journey. And also, I think about and then their ability to ingest that change is gonna be important as well too. Yeah, absolutely. So we know that adapting to change is crucial Barry, especially considering the workforce dynamics in recent years. Particularly in nursing homes and skilled nursing where there's a particular shortage there. And I think in a lot of ways, the reimbursement models there for the whole nursing home industry and the like. is really challenging. And so they've got an acute shortage of workers there. And it's basically about the deal and the ability to pay people for a challenging job. And I think that plays out across all the different areas of healthcare staffing, but particularly acute there. And I think it's an ongoing challenge to... to retain an aging healthcare workforce, to grow, to bring in new workers into that workforce. And I think that there's not like a simple solution to this. It's an all hands on deck solution for sure. Thank you for that. And we've talked a little bit about that for most of our conversation. when we talk about the aging population, the different demographics that are in the workforce, their needs, and then also the needs of the patients as well. So thank you for that. When you think about all of these trends, which are crucial for planning, another factor, including all sectors, especially in healthcare, is the economic environment. Considering the current high levels of inflation, what impact do you foresee on the healthcare industry and on patient care specifically? Yeah. Well, you know, healthcare costs have always been going up higher than inflation overall. I mean, the good news is I think inflation in general is moderating. We've seen this throughout the world as, you know, the pandemic just with the supply chain shortages caused a lot of that. What isn't going to happen is that, you know, like prices are not going to go back to where they were pre-pandemic. And so, you know, the rate of. inflationary increases I think are gonna slow and they already are. So I think it's you know that always it's gonna be a it's gonna cause pressure I think on the on the health care system you know in terms of in terms of spending and the like but I do think that we're gonna see it normalize over the next couple of years. As far as the longer term, I think it's a big challenge. I mean, a lot of what we see in the healthcare system is driven by government policy, particularly in Medicare. And the Medicare system needs to get fixed at some point, I suppose, as it continues to eat up a greater share of government spending in particular. So it's an ongoing challenge. I think it has come back to more, or is likely to go back to more of the normal challenges that we had as pre-pandemic, but it's still, you know, there's still sort of a looming crisis out there about like how we're gonna fund the US healthcare system over the longer term. And, you know, that I think is a... At some point, we're going to have to figure that out. I'm not sure, given where we are right now politically, how exactly that will play out. But it certainly will need to get handled at some point. I think that's also a pretty big imperative. I think we've been noticing over the last decade the rising of health care costs. And now that we have this inflation, I think the implications are pretty massive. And I think to your point, I don't know how we solve that first world problem, but I know we need to do that. Well, at some point, right, healthcare costs can't take over the entire economy. And it crowds out all sorts of other spending as well. So there's all sorts of choices. None of them are particularly fun. But I do think that it can. The great news is that there's a lot of technology and tech-driven change that's out there which can make healthcare more affordable. And so, if you get the right policy lined up with that, we can find a way to sort of drive, at least get healthcare costs to keep more in line with economic growth. So it can be done. Innovation technology, I think is a lot of it. And then growing that healthcare workforce. Absolutely. I also like to challenge people to think about some of the other aspects that influence a person's health, right? So when we think about dietary needs and our food supply and the things that influence that to whether or not we have people that are able to eat well on a daily basis that has implications obviously on our healthcare system as well. Well, Barry, this has been an amazing conversation. I just wanna say thank you so much for all of your insights. I have one final question for you. I ask every single one of our guests, if you could challenge our audience to take one specific action or adopt a mindset shift from today's conversation, what would that challenge be? Yeah, you got me there, Jamey. That's a tough one. One specific action. I think that the... I guess I would... you know, encourage people to think more holistically about their talent. And, you know, to think, to think about, just to have a mindset that, um, what, what we would talk about this sort of total talent approach to, uh, your workforce and think, um, more broadly about the full range of like, what is the right type of worker for the work that needs to get done? where can you find these pools of talent outside of the traditional ways that maybe you've done it in the past? And how can you use that sort of more broad thinking to solve the key issue which I think healthcare organizations have which is this ongoing chronic talent shortage. And so I think there's a lot of opportunity for more creative thinking there. Awesome. Very thank you so much for your time today my friend. It's been wonderful. Thank you, Jame. Thank you for joining us today on Elevate Care. We hope you enjoyed this episode. If you found this podcast valuable, please consider liking, subscribing, and leaving a review on your favorite podcast platform. Your feedback means the world to us and helps us to reach even more listeners like you. You can learn more about our show on our website, amnhealthcare.com. and follow us on social media to stay updated on new episodes and the ever-changing world of healthcare. Thank you for being a part of the ElevateCare community. Until next time, keep elevating healthcare and remember that together we can create a brighter, healthier future for all. Special thanks to AMN Healthcare for making this show possible.